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February 12, 2009
Leaving the Church, and Cynthia, Behind
By Aliza Hausman
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One of my conversion rabbis, Haskel Lookstein, recently made headlines for walking into a church. The timing strikes me as a little crazy because I can’t stop thinking about a certain question I asked my other conversion rabbi, Elie Weinstock, and the ramifications of the answer he gave me. When I was converting to Judaism, I asked Rabbi Weinstock if I could walk into a church again. I wasn’t planning on returning for services but I had my sights set on visiting the Sistine Chapel someday. It was also an answer that bothered many of my Christian friends, particularly my friend, Cynthia.

Cynthia was a first-generation Italian-American Catholic, the kind of hardcore Catholic that went to church on other days besides Sunday. She was the big sister I had always wanted. She went with me to look at apartments in college so I wouldn’t fall prey to strange roommates or swindling realtors. And it was Cynthia who gave me $800 once as a Christmas present because I wanted to visit my father in the Dominican Republic, who I hadn’t seen in nearly ten years. Cynthia told me the experience would change my life and my relationship with my father forever. She was right, of course, like big sisters often are.

I loved Cynthia. I saw a bit of myself in her. I wanted to be as generous as she always was. I wanted to be as good a person as Cynthia was. She was faithful. She attended church often, even helped in the rectory, I think. Unlike most of my friends, Cynthia refused to have sex before marriage. I looked up to her, even though we were both about 5’3.”

Like all good Catholic girls, Cynthia wanted to get married in a big Roman Catholic Church. I didn’t. But I wasn’t a good Catholic girl. I’d dreamt of being married in a synagogue without ever having set foot in one. I’d hungered to be Jewish before I’d even known what Jewish was. At eight years old, in Sunday school, I had quickly learned that I saw G-d differently than other Catholics did. The idea of Jesus confused me but the story of Moses drew me in. I didn’t know that one story came from the New Testament and the other came from the Torah. I just made it a point to watch “The Ten Commandments” religiously every Easter and I gritted my teeth through church.

But would I go back to church to see her get married, Cynthia wanted to know. So even though the idea of setting foot in a church again made me uncomfortable, I asked my rabbi about it. He spouted off phrases like “functioning churches” and “the pain and suffering the church has caused the Jewish people.” He spoke of idols like the big crosses that had always made me cringe. The answer, basically, was “no.” I took that to include attending the wedding ceremonies of my family and friends, even Cynthia. And secretly, I was glad. Now that I had found my place in the world, I didn’t want to look back. The church was my past, Judaism was my present and future.

But telling Cynthia I wouldn’t attend her big church wedding, even one that was very much imaginary at the time, was another thing. Cynthia had been incredibly supportive of my conversion. She had asked me only gentle questions about it. She had told me that if I really believed in what I was doing, it was the right thing for me. There were never any recriminations from Cynthia—none of the unreturned phone calls there had been from other Christian friends after the confession: “I’m converting to Judaism.” Cynthia still returned my calls and she never asked why I didn’t, couldn’t, believe in Jesus. Our friendship soared high above our religious differences.

Then I told Cynthia I would never set foot in a “functioning” church again. I uttered the words in a calm, soothing voice, the kind you’d use with a child, not a nearly thirty-year-old woman. She didn’t understand. Her voice was shrill, high and taut with tension.

“You won’t come to my wedding?” Cynthia asked. “But why?”

I tried to explain, the words like peanut butter stuck to the roof of my mouth, I couldn’t get them out right, I stumbled over them. My sister later told me I should have said, “This is one of the things my new religion asks of me and I can’t turn my back on it.” I don’t think that would have ameliorated Cynthia’s hurt. She said at church that they always prayed for the Jewish people. She couldn’t understand why my religion asked me to never walk into a church, not even for one-time events and I couldn’t understand why it wasn’t enough that I would attend the reception I couldn’t eat at…if it wasn’t in a church.

I remember the fear that enveloped my chest like fingers with long nails piercing and squeezing my heart. I was afraid that if I hung up on Cynthia, I would never hear from her again. On the phone, I emailed my rabbi, hoping that there was some other way he could say "this church thing" in a way that wouldn’t hurt Cynthia. I remember signing onto a Jewish website and reading the answer to some question like “Why can’t Jews go to church?” and then reading the answer aloud to Cynthia in a shaky voice, bereft of soothing tones, a voice that cracked with fear.

I remember thinking that Cynthia wasn’t listening. I pictured her as a child, crying in the corner, her ears covered up with her hands. There were no words that would make it better. Our friendship was being tested and I would soon learn whether or not our religious differences could really separate us. She told me again and again that she would go to my hypothetical wedding in a synagogue and that it injured her that I wouldn’t be there for her wedding. It felt like we were playing tennis, volleying the same ball, the same words, back at each other over and over again. The conversation lasted hours but we weren’t getting anywhere. There was no place to go.

In the happy ending of this story, we would have both swallowed our pain to maintain our friendship and “that church thing” would have become the elephant always in the room with us. We would have never spoken of it again. We would have glanced at each other more warily until we finally came to trust each other again. Maybe I would have given in and said, “For you, I’ll set foot in a church again, but only for you.” But I didn’t say it. When we finally hung up the phone, I trembled slightly, trying to battle against the fear that threatened to unhinge me. We would move past this, I told myself. But there was doubt. I counted on my fingers the body count left over from my decision to convert, the friends I had offended, insulted and hurt, the number felt high. Too high. I tried to reassure myself that those had been lesser friendships, not true friendships like the one Cynthia and I shared.

I emailed Cynthia. I apologized profusely for causing her pain. I told her how much I loved her and I detailed how much she meant to me. I left messages with her mother and father, who fondly remembered feeding me, and I listened deeply for signs in their voices that might help me gauge whether Cynthia was ignoring my calls. They said she just wasn’t home. Eventually, I stopped bothering them. She never called. She never wrote. I never heard from Cynthia again. She never made it to my big synagogue wedding; I never found out if I would have caved for her big church wedding.

Three years later, when my in-laws took me and my husband to Rome for a big family vacation, I knew the first place I wanted to go. It was the only exception I had been willing to make early in my conversion. I had always known that if someday it were possible, I would go to the Sistine Chapel and stand below Michelangelo’s rendition of Adam and G-d. I tried not to think of Cynthia when I finally stood under the ceiling and I told myself that the Sistine Chapel was not a functioning church.

The next step on the tour, though, was St. Peter’s Basilica. Its claim to fame according to my guidebook was a statue of St. Peter and the Virgin Mary, the 1972 story of the man who yelled “I am Jesus Christ!” before smashing the Virgin’s nose and fingers on the statue, and an infamous crypt. The Basilica also held relics that included St. Veronica’s handkerchief bearing Christ’s face and finally, “a fragment of the True Cross.” There was no way I was setting foot in that church. Instead, I sat in front on the steps while my family filed in to “look at the art.” I eyed a mass schedule that told me the Basilica was very much a functioning church and I could think of nothing but Cynthia.

When my husband and his family exited the church, my husband looked stunned. Everyone, including the Jewish tour guide, had gotten caught up in the middle of Mass. They’d had to sit through parts of the service before they were allowed to leave. My husband was sheepish but I felt ever more certain of my convictions to sit out that part of the tour. Cynthia had been too great a loss. Walking into St. Peter’s Basilica would have felt like a desecration of my long lost friendship with Cynthia and the oath I had taken before her.

As we left St. Peter’s Basilica, I looked back once. I was looking back on my past as a Catholic; I was looking back at it as the wife of a future rabbi. I was looking back at Cynthia, too, feeling my heart clench just as painfully as the last day we had spoken to each other. And then finally, I turned, looked ahead and put one foot in front of the other. I knew there was no going back.


Aliza Hausman a Latina Orthodox Jewish convert, freelance writer, blogger and educator. Currently working on a memoir, she lives in New York with her husband who is pursuing rabbinical ordination.


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Recent Comments

I understand that other rabbinic authorities are of the opinion that if there are no outward signs that you, a Jew, are *not* in the church to pray as a non-Jew then it is all right to enter the church. I think it is terrible to give up such a deep and meaningful friendship. I think her conversion rabbi was wrong based on Jewish law.

Arnold Kiner posted on 02/12 at 11:16 PM.

Dear Aliza,
I write as a Rabbi who opposed Rabbi Lookstein's participation in the interfaith church service. I will not go into a halachic discourse about it. But I found your other Rabbi's explanation in poor taste.
What you should have told Cynthia is what I believe Rabbi Lookstein should have told the Obama aide who invited him. That is, that the practice of religion is a deeply personal intimate relationship with God. I am only comfortable maintaining the privacy of that relationship in my own House of Worship.
I respect all people of faith who worship God including Christians. I would totally understand someone of another faith giving me the same answer were I to invite them to my synagogue. I would respect them for their answer as I hope you will respect me for my answer.
Respectfully Yours
Rabbi Heshie Billet

Heshie Billet posted on 02/12 at 11:21 PM.

I would like to learn from Rabbi Weinstock and from Rabbi Lookstein whether they indeed believe you did the right thing -- that within their view of Judaism you had no other options. It's very easy to say "no" -- a strength of Judaism is finding a way to say "yes" in situations like this.

Robert L Smith posted on 02/12 at 11:30 PM.

how come your husband went in? is he not jewish?!

david posted on 02/12 at 11:36 PM.

Admirable and touching in every respect--religiously, emotionally, and aesthetically.

David Berger posted on 02/12 at 11:38 PM.

By promoting an emotive response to Rabbi Lookstein's actions rather than a reasoned or Halakhic debate, the Mrs Hausman (whatever the merits of her story) allows the OU a punt on a sensitive and contemporary issue. Halakhic debate would focus on the applicability of categories like Menahem haMeiri's "religions of reason" in contemporary discourse. Other Halakhists might find themselves questioning whether someone "close to the sovereign" might still be allowed to enter the Church of a religion which is not quite within Meiri's purview. Other foci of debate might be the current status of Obama as a quasi Messianic sovereign, and whether we should join such a secular religion or conversely, the status of civic religion as religion at all. All of these factors might be seen as mitigating or indicting but all of them are much more relevant than how Mrs. Hausman, with all respect to her story, felt about Moses and Jesus in school. Mrs. Hausman's story of friendship is poignant and deeply moving but again in this context a complete cop out. While we may question her judgment about her friend's non wedding or the difference between St. Peters and the non-operational (sic) Sistine Chapel (used for important Papal Services) none of this is relevant to the controversy surrounding Rabbi Lookstein. All this piece ends up doing is furthering the emotive, knee jerk and usually nonsensical responses many Orthodox Jews have towards other religions. At a time fraught with intra and inter religious conflict this is hardly the path we want to encourage, and the cultivation of some serious nuance is needed as a propaedeutic to any future debate on this highly germane topic.

chakira posted on 02/13 at 12:05 AM.

Told truthfully, from the heart. Ms. Hausman knows how to connect sincerely with people. A valuable skill in this day and age.

Rabbi Israel Robinson posted on 02/13 at 12:08 AM.

I do not understand what this story is meant to teach us. I am an orthodox convert myself, and it is stories like this one that deeply disturb me, and that cause me to call into question my own religious convictions, rather than strengthen them. I was drawn to Judaism for its tolerance and acceptance of others who are different, including others of different faiths. I don't know of any rule stating that Jews, other than Cohens, can't set foot inside a church. I am saddened that the author gave up such an important friendship for such a trivial matter. We should be secure enough in our own identities to know that our presence inside of a church will not call into question our own religious convictions. Judaism needs to be more sensitive and respectful of other religions and cultures, and the current culture of exclusion and the "us versus them" mentality will cause Judaism to be obsoleted long before its time.

Cindy posted on 02/13 at 12:12 AM.

I'm converted too with family traditions that probe the hidden heritage of Jewish roots.

I love your story

Judaism is a very important part of my everyday life

Ivan

Ivan posted on 02/13 at 12:37 AM.

I totally disagree with Aliza and the whole notion that Orthodox Jews cannot go into a church. I go to all my Christian friends' weddings, confirmations, funerals whether there are masses or not. I feel enough confidence in my Judaism to be able to enjoy their joy and their sadness. We need to relate as human beings. Also I very much enjoy recognizing our parentage of Christianity and recognizing the many elements of Jewish elements in the Christian Service.

lawrence Sheftel posted on 02/13 at 12:41 AM.

You couldn't walk into a church, just once, for your best friend's wedding? And now you have the cold comfort of being right according to halacha, but you have lost the comfort and warmth of a best friend. Life is just too short to alienate friends because of religious differences.

Ivan L. Engel posted on 02/13 at 12:41 AM.

Let me start by saying that learning to let go of the pain, of losing a friend over Judaism, is the first step to embracing Jewish life!

I, too, lost a very good friend. She is an Iraq Muslim woman. We both went looking for a husband, each within our traditions, around the same time. We shared many laughs and tears, and supported each other through all those little disappointments that life hits us with. (Her new husband disapproved of her having a Jewish friend). It is for this very reason that I found your article interesting.

I, too, am a convert (Orthodox) and giving up my old religion was a big relief to me! I couldn't even think about going back, not even for my brothers', my cousins’ or my ex-Muslim friends’ wedding; they all understood. We found other ways for me to participate and I am not talking about donating money.

Long story short, I found a better friend. You, too, will find another Cynthia; May Hashem bless you with many friends so that one day you can write a book about “friends”.

All the best,
Rebecca

Rebecca P. posted on 02/13 at 12:44 AM.

Growing up, I too was galvanized by the stories of what the church, chiefly the catholic, had done throughout history to our people. However, this article, seemingly transcends the ideal of friendship with the world around us to cultivate the ostracism that, in my opinion, has likewise caused great harm to our generations. To turn one's back on a son or daughter who is seemingly led astray to conversion is headish. The commandments are, indeed, plain to all, however, so is the covenant and which of us can annul it? Not to overstretch the point but my point here is not tolerance but mercy and kindness rather than the turning away of rejection. B'ezrat HaShem Let us be kind thus making a mitzvah rather than moat.

Brandon Anderson posted on 02/13 at 12:47 AM.

Cindy: Hang in there. I was born Jewish and am also deeply disturbed by this story and even more so by the RCA response to Rabbi Lookstein. I sent the following to the RCA copied to Rabbi Lookstein. He thanked me, the RCA ignored me.

I read of your criticism of Rabbi Lookstein for participating in the inauguration. With all due respect, I list the RCA's action along with actions of Rabbi Rubashkin and Bernie Maddoff as low
points in the Jewish year. You make it difficult for committed Jews to discuss the values of Judaism with both our fellow Jews and Gentiles. I'm embarrassed for the Jewish people. I can explain to secular Jews and gentiles I work with why I can't eat trief, and why I can't go to meetings on Shabbat, why I send my kids to a Hebrew Day School, and to Israel, but this defies explanation. For shame!!!!!!!!!

Robert L Smith posted on 02/13 at 01:00 AM.

B"H
why did you have to be so honest with cynthia?
there are some truths best kept secret and used on a need to know basis.

menachem posted on 02/13 at 01:05 AM.

Yours is the true acceptance of Hash-m's Torah. Naaseh V'Nishma. We will do what is asked of us with no questions and no compromising, simply because this is what Hash-m wants us to do. We will hear
the words of the true Orthodox Rabbis that accepted Torah from Sinai just as Moshe Rabbeinu did, undiluted by personal agendas and political motivations.

sarah nadel posted on 02/13 at 01:05 AM.

For the record, I never said I disagreed with Rabbi Lookstein's decision.

Aliza Hausman posted on 02/13 at 01:38 AM.

I was brought up in the U.K. In the East End of London, you might call it the Ghetto we Jews created for ourselves.
A product of a Jewish Day School. where the first subjects each day were Hebrew and Judaism. A six day Sunday to Friday school.
Never once in the whole of my life was I told that I could not enter a Church.
As an adolescent and an adult attended Weddings and Christenings, in Churches. Just as Gentile friends attended our family Bar/Batmitzvahs as well as Weddings in Synagogues.
We were brought up to respect each other and each other religious beliefs.
We went through W.W.2. together, cried together at the loss of loved ones and rejoiced when the first letter arrived from a P.O.W. camp.
The sky did not fall on our heads, and my favourite Hebrew teacher married a Rabbi who was to become the Chief Rabbi of the British Commonwealth.
Today in almost my 90th. year, I wonder what Mumbo Jumbo is being taught by some of our Rabbonim.
Show me where it is written that a Jew may not enter a place of worship of another religious denomination.?
And remember, it is not where a person prays, or what a person prays, it is how they pray that counts.
There is only one G-D, the way we approach does not matter, as long as we do is the all important.

Anne Sloman posted on 02/13 at 01:53 AM.

I know a member of Young Israel who told us that he could not attend the funeral service of a friend's father. He just stood in front of the church. The pastor came out and said, "I understand. You can't come in." So there is such a path.
I can't see that path. I have Christian friends and I go to their children's weddings. I sit in the back and I don't bow my head or pray, but my presence blesses their joy. And if it is a funeral, my presence blesses their grief and lets them know that they matter and their grief matters.
And my absence would tell them that they do not matter, their joy does not matter, and their grief does not matter.
That is a message I choose to avoid sending. It is divisive.
Yes, Aliza, you will make new friends.
You will make Jewish friends.
But there is something very special about old friends, especially one like Cynthia, who was so giving and so caring, and who did not deserve to be told she would, in effect, be treated as someone who does not matter and whose joy does not matter.
If you grieve for what you did, if you repent, then call her parents again and apologize. Maybe you can still attend her wedding. After all, you entered the Sistine Chapel, which IS a functioning church.
Incidentally, there is a book out about the Sistine's Jewish connection. Notice all the paintings are from the Hebrew Bible.

Inanna Bashkan posted on 02/13 at 02:05 AM.

Dear Aliza,

Your story brings back my pain. I too am a convert to Orthodox Judaism. I was told that I could only attend the funeral of my best friend (of 35 years), a Catholic, if it was not a religious one. Her death occurred suddenly when I was visiting relatives about a 1,000 miles from my home, so my 3-year-old son was with me. We (my entire family considered her part of our family) went to the funeral home because I was told it would be a secular service. When a priest walked in wearing the full garb and began JCing, I felt sick to my stomach and whisked up my son and exited the building. This caused great distress among family and friends, but they got over it.
My Rabbi agreed that I had done the right thing and wagged his finger at me declaring that this should teach me a lesson about mixing with goyim.
Fast forward 3 years... my husband's daughter (Catholic because of her mother) was having a fancy country club wedding being presided over by a Catholic priest. It was about 800 miles from our home and there were no hotels within walking distance of the club where the wedding ceremony was to take place about an hour before Shabbat. No kosher food was available and the club said we couldn't bring our own food in. My husband decided NOT to attend his daughter's wedding - you can imagine the family fights that pursued. A few weeks later in passing my husband mentioned his decision to the same Rabbi. The Rabbi started yelling at him that we shouldn't offend the goyim and in cases such as our own children he certainly should have gone to the wedding as exceptions could be made.
The bottom line: as converts we just can't win no matter what we do. Now when such decisions face us, we ask more than one Rabbi and find that the saying "two Rabbis, 3 opinions" often rings true. Rabbis are people too. And I think in the early stages during and after conversion they try to test our faithfulness to Judaism. I promise you it will get better, hang in there.

Tehillah posted on 02/13 at 03:57 AM.

I am a Mexican American Reform convert. My Mother had me baptized Catholic at birth. As a child I was raised Methodist by my Catholic mother and Methodist father. He was the son of a Methodist minister.
In university I took conversion classes to become Catholic. I raised my children in Catholic schools all the way through High School. I was active in my church and participated in the mass by doing liturgy readings and singing in the Spanish choir. However, it was the "Old Testament" readings that touched my soul.
I had always had a love of Israel and the heroes of the "Old Testament." A series of experiences beginning with a visit to a synagogue for a Bar Mitzvah led me down a long path of resonances that pulled me away from Catholicism and towards Judaism.
The details of that path or the people on that path with me are not important here. Suffice to say that I felt that I was after the One G-d, Blessed be He.
I could no longer accept the concept of the Trinity, and could not worship a man who in my belief is not G-d. Jesus was a Jewish teacher in synagogues and other locations. Decades later Paul's emphatic teachings turned him into the Christian messiah.
I love Torah study, Judaism, Israel, and especially Jerusalem, but I would not turn my back on my children, family, long time friends, and especially my mother. She is 92 now, and I know that someday I shall lose her. Can anyone imagine not going to their mother's funeral?
I honor the Observant Jews for their discipline and their Shomrei Shabbat lives.
I also honor my Christian family and my Christian, Jewish and Muslim friends. Hashem placed them on my path. We love each other, and we respect each other's faith.
Whenever I enter a church, I find a quiet place to say softly:
"I am not hear to honor wood and stone. I am here to honor the One G-d." Then I say the Shema.
May you and your family be blessed, and may you find a true friend again.

Angelita Galvan Freeman posted on 02/13 at 04:04 AM.

You did the right thing. The bottom line is, that a separation between Jews and Gentiles is built in to much of our religion, and rightly so because otherwise, we would assimilate and, chesvashalom, disappear.

That's the reality. They could be the most wonderful people, but we need to stay apart. The name Ivri means "the other side"

G-d appreciates your strength.
Kola kavod!!

Chayamiriam posted on 02/13 at 06:10 AM.

Dear Ms. Hausman,
Is our G-d a G-d of love, or a G-d of rules? Is He a G-d of relationship, or a G-d of religion?

Deuteronomy 6 says, "You shall love the L-rd your G-d with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength. . . And you shall love your neighbor as yourself." In no place does G-d's Word ever say, "Thou shalt not set food inside a functional church."

Who are you going to obey? HaShem, the One who created you? Or a man, as fragile and imperfect as the rest of us?

It saddens me to see that in this case, you chose religion over relationship. I do not believe that is consistent with the nature of our G-d. If it was, we Jews would not still exist! G-d would have destroyed us in the desert! (Exodus 32, Numbers 14, and countless others!)

I hope that as you mature in your journey, you will come to understand the true nature of HaShem and His purpose for you.

Shalom!

Amy posted on 02/13 at 07:39 AM.

While I have not read all the pro's & con's in this Obama-Lookstein controversy, the Halacha is quite clear when it comes for Jews entering a used place of idolatry. No apologetics, no "reasons for a higher purpose" can ever validate anyone, rabbi or not to enter such a place, sorry, but the truth has to be told, and that's what we as Jews are all about, THE TRUTH.
As for you Aliza, you made the right decision. Yes, your friend was precious, your friend was kind, your friend was giving - her time, money, empathy at times of hurt, BUT there are things we cannot do for our friends, and those are when the circumstances touch upon our "bigger" friend, the Creator of the Universe who gave us life itself and gave us these precious friends to begin with to help us along the path to find Him. We are all obligated to Honor Him before anyone else whether it be our parents or our most closest friends who we may even die for. All are obligated to Honor Him, including your friend as well and by your staying away from her wedding, as painful as it was for both of you, it was the right choice.
Personally what would I have done? I would have told your friend, as well as President Obama the above. I would've also added the following as well. While many of us have various opinion as to who Jesus was, historically speaking, he was an Orthodox Jew, certainly for most of his life. What he said before he died also seems to imply that he remained so as well. Jesus would never have stepped in to a Roman idolatrous place of worship. He would never have stepped into a place where men worship a man or any other men for that matter, even if it was the leader of the world's greatest Democracy. To do so would be a slight to the Creator of the Universe, our best & most closest friend. Any friend or President would have understood that they are not slighting them, they are giving Honor to the Father of all Mankind. With that said, may you continue growing in your Faith as we all need to do as Hashem sends us His guides in the forms of friends, and anonymous bloggers.

Yehoshua posted on 02/13 at 08:14 AM.

Rabbi Hershie Billet wrote: "What you should have told Cynthia is what I believe Rabbi Lookstein should have told the Obama aide who invited him. That is, that the practice of religion is a deeply personal intimate relationship with God. I am only comfortable maintaining the privacy of that relationship in my own House of Worship. I respect all people of faith who worship God including Christians."

It always amazes and amuses me how someone totally unrelated to the situation can come up with the "perfect" response. Whenever I see someone say "What you SHOULD have told so and so", I am somewhat wary. Is the rabbi not aware of the fact that the Jewish person going into the Church was not there to worship. Therefore giving the reason of "personal intimate relationship" etc. is somewhat of an insult to the person's intelligence. If she absolutely felt she couldn't go into the Church because of halacha, then be honest by saying Orthodox Judaism forbids one to go into any House of Worship other than an orthodox synagogue. To do otherwise borders on patronization, IMHO.

Dr Richard Wolberg posted on 02/13 at 08:45 AM.

I was raised as a Protestant, went to public school in Kansas and remember dancing the Hora while singing Hanukah songs (this was in the 1960's).

After being away from church for a long time, I realized deep deep down I was truly and deeply a Christian. What made me realize that was when a brilliant young Jewish man (an only son) asked me to marry him ---and I looked at our future and realized I could not convert to Judaism and said "no". It broke my heart as he was a good man (and a "good catch" - now a neurosurgeon!!).

I converted to CATHOLICISM in my late thirties. It took much thought and consideration even though all in my family are Christians (Baptists and Pentecostals -not Catholics).

Regarding Cynthia, if I were her??
In my twenties, I would have been hurt beyond forgiving the author. But in my 30's, I might have remained friends...But into my forties, I definitely would have understood why the author couldn't attend and remained friends.

I believe, someday, the friendship will be healed as both, hopefully, become more wise...
Anne

Anne (in Virginia USA) posted on 02/13 at 08:46 AM.

I give kudos to Mrs. Hausman, for the difficult decisions she had to make, for consulting her Rav before making a decision in a halachically cloudy context, and for sharing the experience with us.

In a time of "political correctness" (or do we now call it "cultural sensitivity") we find ourselves in a situation where we often compromise our deeply held beliefs and traditions in the name of "tolerance". There is nothing intolerant about not entering a "functioning" church. It does not imply persecution of the church, its religion, or its congregants. It states that you are refusing to accept another form of spiritual worship. Saying that these other religions worship the same god as our G-d is nothing but a way to make ourselves feel better about maintaining our own religion. It allows u to sugar coat the basis of religion by saying "I'm right, but you are, too", which, of course, is bunk. We, as Jews, who were brought out of slavery from Egypt by G-d, who received the Torah on Mount Sinai from G-d, who were taken into the land of Israel by G-d, know that He is the One True G-d. Does it make people uncomfortable to be so staunch in that belief? Yes, because it's not PC. But what we need to bear in mind is that the underlying belief of EVERY religion is that it is the correct way of serving god, and that their god is the *real* god. So no one should blame Mrs. Hausman for being firm in the belief that she accepted upon herself - she is a role model for us all.

Perhaps Mrs. Hausman could have found a way to explain it to Cynthia without offending her; it's REALLY easy for us to judge her, not being in her situation. But the fact remains that she did the right thing.

Some people may say, "MY Judaism doesn't forbid me from sharing in other religions' personal events", and that may be. But if you want to call yourself an Orthodox Jew, then you need to be prepared to follow the Jewish laws and traditions that have been passed down for thousands of years. If you don't know them, you ask someone who does - your Orthodox Rabbi.

Yashar koach, Mrs. Hausman!

Matthew G. posted on 02/13 at 09:20 AM.

As a religious Jew who does not believe in having graven images. It should have been awkward to sit thru any type service in church. I have attended non Jewish weddings in other locals easily.
The approach in telling a good friend you cannot go into a church should have done with a certain diplomacy. My friends who are not Jewish can fathom the reasons easier that way.

Isaac posted on 02/13 at 09:24 AM.

I find your article somewhat disturbing because, as far as I know, there is no written command "not" to enter a church. One's intent on entering a church should be the criteria. Rabbi Bernie Fox wrote an outstanding article on this very concept in this weeks edition of the Jewish Times. His contention is that there should be two criteria when making halakic rulings. There should certainly be the issue of din being critical to the ruling but that also, the issue of hesed has got to play a vital part in ones ruling. Your rabbi seemed to not consider hesed at all when he advised you. How unfortunate that a special friendship was destroyed.

Avraham posted on 02/13 at 09:54 AM.

As a fellow Orthodox convert, I reacted with great sadness to your loss of a lifelong friend. Although I was never faced with the crisis you experienced, I would have understood if you had made a one-time exception for your best friend who so cared for you. Still, I can only admire your steadfastness in yiddishkeit, and hope that some day you and Cynthia will be reconciled. Chazak! -- Efraim Carlsen, Woodmere,NY

Efraim Carlsen posted on 02/13 at 10:03 AM.

Maybe with all the changes you had made, the friendship was already changing. Friendships seem to be based on things people have in common. As you made changes in your life (changes that affected all areas of your life), you both probably were starting to go separate directions anyway. It is always sad to lose a good friend, but sometimes it seems some friends are only in our lives for a season. You have all those wonderful memories to go back to.

Rachel posted on 02/13 at 10:14 AM.

I personally have asked quite a few 'TORAH ORTHODOX RABBIS' ABOUT THEIR OPINION'.
It turns out it is more Torah law. A simple person is forbidden to enter a place of idol worship.FOR MANY REASONS.

YOU CAN ACCEPT THIS OR REFUSE IT. THIS IS NOT A MATTER OF PERSONAL INTERPRETATIONS. This is serious law and the future of the nation of Israel. .

you may not like what i write but judaism is not a democratic belief system.
It is as free as the knowledge you have of TORAH and as restricting as your lack of knowledge.
LAW SAYS 'DONT CROSS AGAINST THE RED OR A CAR MAY HIT YOU. IS THAT RESTRICTING OR PROTECTING?'

THANKS
DACON9

DACON9 aka DAVID posted on 02/13 at 10:19 AM.

I first read this story on beyondbt.com earlier this week, and am glad the OU picked it up as well as it certainly is valid for many reasons.

When I became a "BT", I clearly recall how it was my "lapsed Catholic" friend from high school who came to my defense, when my secular Jewish friends were attacking me as having gone crazy or worse.

It is with that thought in mind that it occurs to me that maybe enough time has elapsed to allow you to reconnect with Cynthia. Unlike many here, I do believe that all friendships are valuable, especially one as close as yours with Cynthia has been. Perhaps you could write her a letter (preferably snail instead of email) and try to tell her how much her friendship has meant to you, and that you hope the two of you can get together again, despite the pain this event caused both of you. Just a thought.

Charnie posted on 02/13 at 10:24 AM.

I would like to see someone with knowledge of Halakha to post an opinion with references. (Mishna Brura, Shulhan Oruch, any other Halakhic text that Orthodox Judaism finds authoritative.)

For the record, I agree with authors decision not to go inside a church, but also agree with Menachem, that some things are to be discussed only when it is absolutely necessary to do so. While I am not a convert, I am a Baal Tshuva, and have plenty of non orthodox relatives (with various ensuing issues).

Jeff posted on 02/13 at 11:22 AM.

Aliza,

As a Rabbi, I do not agree with the opinion expressed by R' Lookstein. Nor do I agree with how he phrased his answer. Growing up Orthodox, my rabbi taught that one should try to understand other religions, to be respectful, and that there halachah did not prohibit a Jew entering a church.

The late Rabbi Ephraim Epstein, z'l (REITS class of 1934), told a story of the rabbi (himself) and the three nuns. It was the mid 1960s, and on a Friday afternoon in early December, Rabbi Epstein was driving down a main thoroughfare in St. Louis. He noticed three nuns braving the cold. Pulling his car over to the curb he said: "Sisters, may I give you a lift?" The nuns responded, "thank you, Rabbi." Rabbi Epstein asked where they were going, "To the new cathedral." "No problem," replied the rabbi.

Pulling up to the cathedral, the nuns thanked the rabbi for his hospitality and invited him in. "Thank you, responded," Rabbi Epstein, "but I can't." The Sisters asked: "Does Judaism prohibit you from entering a church?" Rabbi Epstein replied, "No." It's just that it's a little after 3 PM, and being December, the sunset comes early. I have to get home, shower, shave and dress for the Sabbath." R' Epstein was a firm believer in interfaith relations. He strongly believed that it was important for Jews to understand and respect other religions, because if I can't understand and respect my friend's faith, what does that say about me?

I have always remembered that story, Aliza -- as it speaks to who we, as Jews are, and should strive to be in our everyday lives.

I wish you the best and continued a new and vibrant strength in you old time friendship, with a comfort of knowing who you are in your new home, that of Judaism.

Sincerely,

Rabbi Joseph Fred Benson
Congregation Shaare Tikvah
Jefferson City, Mo.

Rabbi Joseph Fred Benson posted on 02/13 at 11:22 AM.

Aliza--

Sorry, you were wrong, your rabbi is wrong, and a rule that requires us to reject our friends to prove our loyalty to our God is offensive, foolish, and unworthy of a great people.

Jews have a tendency to get very spun up about real or imagined slights from others; we should, therefore, be all the more sensitive to the feelings of others. I can only begin to imagine the pain that you caused your friend (who deserved some love and loyalty at your hands) by rejecting her and letting her know that you viewed her place of worship as a den of idolatry unfit for you to set foot in. And all for what...? A rabbinic ruling that arose because of persecutions hundreds of years ago? The Inquisition and the crusades are over; let's move past the mind-set that arose from them.

I have been to Rome; I have seen St. Peter's and the Vatican. Both are beautiful places, and no, neither of them made me want to become a Catholic.

Judaism needs to revisit quite a few of these rulings. They are outdated, and, in the end, are little more than a pointless chilul Hashem and an insult to people who are our friends and neighbors.

David M. Frost posted on 02/13 at 11:26 AM.

Aliza,
Your story is poignant, well written and engaging.

We all make decisions that are, hopefully, right for us in that moment. If you are at peace with your choices, it is for no one else to judge.

Amy Sue Nathan posted on 02/13 at 11:31 AM.

What a shame to lose a good friend over something as trivial as setting foot in a church. I was raised Catholic and as a child we were told that we could not go to visit a Protestant church. As a young child I would sneak into the Greek Orthodox church. Now I attend a Jewish Temple. The hurt that she caused her friend was irreconcilable.
Would that rabbi be such a good friend to give her $800 so that she could visit her father. Do you think God is going to strike her down if she sets foot in a church. I'm sure He would rather have peace between friends.

Irene posted on 02/13 at 11:35 AM.

It was pointed out to me that there is a vast difference between a Roman Catholic church and an Episcopalian one - where Rabbi Lookstein was, I believe. The latter, I am told, does not display crosses and idols. Therefore, one should not equate the Rabbi's decision with Aliza's.

Rivka posted on 02/13 at 12:19 PM.

A shandeh to the Goyim!

I believe that you are wrong for the hurt you caused Cynthia. I also believe you hurt the Jewish people. At the least you should have explicitly discussed the specific issue of your best friend's wedding with your rabbi before deciding not to go.

Norman Green posted on 02/13 at 12:20 PM.

Aliza, you know how I love your writing and how you so candidly share your experiences. You do so much for getting the voice of gerim (converts) "out there". But something about this article just broke my heart; and when all is said and done, I do not agree with your approach. I am not saying that what you did was outright wrong...or that the halacha is not clear regarding Jews entering churches (it is). But in my humble opinion, the Cynthia situation was not dealt with properly. I can only 1/2 relate in that I really do not have any friends that are THAT dear to me (as what you described). I do have younger sisters however, who may someday get married in a church. But until that day comes, I do not intend on giving any sort of answer to them now one way or the other about not being able to attend their weddings. It's more like, "We will cross that bridge when we come to it." Most non-Jewish weddings don't have the entire wedding events (i.e. the reception) inside the church anyway. I don't see how there is any issue with making an appearance at a reception even though you can't eat the food. My goodness, for work-related events, Torah observant Jews have to do this all the time (corporate parties where the food is trief) so all the more so for a friend's wedding!

The only type of wedding I would completely shun is an inter-marriage between a Jew and a gentile. In any other situation, I would confer with my Rabbi -- getting details of the schedule of events and then seeing what I could and could not be present for. A precious friendship is worth at least that much care. Any proper Rabbi would recognize that delicate dynamic.

Rishona posted on 02/13 at 12:37 PM.

Aliza,

Your sad story should at least have a lesson learned from it.

The importance of consulting one's posek is obvious. 'Shopping around' is, in general, wrong.

However, when confronted with a scenario where the initial 'halakhic' response goes against logic and emotion, and indeed, "feels" unJewish, risks Chilul Hashem, please ask another Rav.

Aliza, did you consult R. Lookstein when this happened? I'd be very interested in his response to your situation.

Avi posted on 02/13 at 12:42 PM.

Rabbi Menachem Genack wrote the following letter to President Clinton, upon his invitation to attend the second inaugural ceremonial which was to be held in a church:

It is most meaningful, appropriate and symbolic that you begin the day of your second Inauguration by attending Church services. It highlights the primary role and need for spirituality in contemporary American life. This is a theme that you have always stressed with great eloquence.

I am deeply honored that you have invited me to participate in this service, but due to religious reasons, I am unable to accept your gracious offer. In recent years there has evolved in our country, as well as other parts of the world, a mutual respect of the world's major faiths. All faiths aspire to the same or similar goals of the freedom and dignity of man created in the image of God. Yet each religious community, endowed with its own intrinsic value and metaphysical worth, has a history that is unique and a ritual that responds to its individual, spiritual gestalt. For this reason, as an Orthodox Rabbi, I am constrained from offering prayers in houses of worship of other faiths. To do otherwise, from the point of view of classical Judaism, is to dilute the integrity of both faiths; such syncretism does honor to neither.

You know I have the highest regard and affection for you. Together with Abraham Lincoln, there has never been a President so devoid of prejudice or bias, so tolerant, so considerate of the special divine endowment of each individual, and of the sacred mystic cords that bind us all together. We as a nation, consequently, have been blessed by your leadership, for it is that theme of equality of all God's creatures, which is the foundation of American political theory and against which each Chief Executive must be measured.

I extend my fervent prayer to the Creator of us all that He bring you and your entire Administration the good health, vigor, compassion and wisdom to successfully conduct the affairs of state of our great nation. May you personally, together with your loved ones, be blessed with all good from Above, and may your hopes for the betterment of the lives of all peoples be fully realized.

Lisa posted on 02/13 at 12:50 PM.

Although very sympathetic to Ms. Hausman's internal struggle, I don't understand the halacha Ms. Hausman observes by not attending her friend's "wedding".

To avoid churches based on the prior treatment of Jews by Christians is not halacha. Banning entry to a church would have to be based on the assumption that a church is pagan. The Gemara in Avodah Zara strictly forbids going into their houses of worship.

But I have read that Tosfot concludes that we are no longer dealing with idolatry as understood in earlier times.

"The Maharal of Prague (ShoT 24), the Tifferet Yisrael (Avot 3.14), and the Noda Biyehuda (in the introduction to Hitnatzlut HaMechaber) all declared that Christianity was not idolatry because it accepted the idea of Divine revelation. (Although, to be fair, none of them raised the issue of going into churches)."

We are not to forget "the pain and suffering the church has caused the Jewish people” but that is not halacha either. And "the big crosses" may be repugnant to us Jews, but to the Christians they are not idols. For Christians it serves to remind them of their saviour's suffering. In this they are more like following customs they don't understand. Chullin 12b says idolaters outside of Israel are not real idolaters.

I am not saying attending a Christian wedding is not without spiritual risks and misunderstanding (on both sides) but I don't see it as a transgression of halacha.

Myron posted on 02/13 at 01:22 PM.

I too am an Orthodox convert. When I asked this question in regards to my family (I wanted to know what would happen when and if my brother got married) I was told by a rabbi that I would not be able to go since, once I became Jewish I would have to leave my previous life behind, lock, stock and barrel and that included my family. When I followed that question up by asking what would happen when, chas v'shalom, my parents died I got the same answer. I don't know if anyone noticed, but I said I asked A rabbi, not MY rabbi. His answers seemed so callous and unfeeling that I went and found another rabbi to complete my conversion (there were other issues with the first rabbi too, but these questions were a factor in the decision to find a new rabbi).

So having been through these questions myself and having dealt with the confusion, stress and pain of them, I want to tell people how very harsh and severe they're being to Ms. Hausman. I know many of the posters here are converts themselves, but for those that aren't, you can have no idea how difficult and confusing the conversion process is. Ms. Hausman was trying to do her best in a tough situation. When you convert, you have it in your head that your rabbi is always right and that you need to follow - to the letter - what he says. She was just following what she was being taught.

For those of you who have been through the process of conversion, I would think that you likely had to face tough questions and decisions that many of us wouldn't agree with either. While you don't agree with how Ms. Hausman handled her situation, think about the tears you shed and the anger you felt at some of the things you were taught and had to follow.

Let's try to have some compassion for Ms. Hausman and the tough decision she made and the sad reaction her friend had.

Shaindy posted on 02/13 at 01:36 PM.

If Rabbi Lookstein didn't go it would have proved a huge embarrassment for the Jewish community. I think the RCA's expression of their opinion did cause an embarrassment and a chilul hashem.

Diane Burstein posted on 02/13 at 01:39 PM.

Somebody asked for source. The following is used as a source but remember there are always different interpretations. Also, even though many of us don't consider Avodah Zara to be the issue, there are those who feel maaris ayin (appearance sake) is involved. Personally, I am not orthodox, so I have no problem entering a church for a friend's wedding. However, I would not go to a church or any other place if it were a wedding between a Jew and non Jew. My reason has nothing to do with going into a church. But it has everything to do with intermarriage and the rampant assimilation which exists today.

Back to the source which I don't feel is valid in the present context:
See Shulchan Aruch Yoreh Deah 139 - 149, particularly 149:1.

Dr R Wolberg posted on 02/13 at 02:03 PM.

Dear Aliza,
I am so sorry for the pain that this decision must have caused you, your friend and her family. I became observant as a young adult and made many decisions based on my Rabbi's advice. After 25 years of being part of the Orthodox world, I have seen many contradictions and many choices that I have made that have caused my non observant family pain.I wonder about Kiddush Hashem and as a previous comment stated 'how to say yes'. Making the orthodox community my new 'family and friends' was easy in the beginning but as my children grow older without the interaction of extended family, I wonder if I made the right choice to keep separate and live away from close family because of observance. I think the orthodox rabbis are so harsh now on converts when we need good people like you strengthening our numbers. May Hashem lead you on the right path.

Ruth posted on 02/13 at 02:40 PM.

As someone who converted to Orthodox Judaism more than 28 years ago, I appreciate Mrs. Hausman's problem. The problem becomes more intense when dealing with one's birth-parents and their funerals. When my father died, I was fortunate that his funeral was not held in a church. But my mother wants her funeral to be in her church and when it is held, I will be outside, subject to the stares of bewilderment and perhaps outrage by her friends and church members who will not understand that their religion, at least for a Jew, is idolatry, and their church is a house of idol worship. My mother has consented to this but is obviously less than pleased. What makes my issue more difficult is when notable rabbis, like Rabbi Lookstein, Rabbi Jakobowitz, zt'l, or Rabbi Yehezkel Ekstein openly go into churches. When Christians are aware of this, they do not understand that we converts have no choice but to stay out. While I respect that there are sources that justify their exceptional visits into churches, I would hope that those using these heters appreciate the difficulty they give to converts.

Bruce James posted on 02/13 at 03:02 PM.

Aliza,
Last Shabbos we read the Haftorah which discusses the strength that Devorah had to lead Am Yisrael. Aliza, be proud that you have that very strength now in your heart and thoughts. This is something that few have and you have climbed to such a high level that your neshama is soaring madrega upon madrega. Hazak v'ametz Tzedekes !!!

Tzvi posted on 02/13 at 03:30 PM.

Aliza Hausman's article did bring a number of issues to the fore. Whether you agree with or take issue with her actions in the past, it seem clear to me that she is speaking from the heart and was trying to do the right thing. Her decision was made with the best intentions and taking into account the best advice that she had. It was clearly a difficult decision and this should not be taken lightly. Posts that castigate here are not only counter productive but are a chillul Hashem.

The issue of entering a Church or other place of worship is not a simple halachic issue. It is easier to think of things as simply black and white, but Rabbi Lookstein is not a simpleton. In any past interactions with him he has always shown a great deal of aneivus (humility) and is not someone who is seeking a 'national scene' or seeking to draw attention to himself. He is also a deep and learned individual. Although he may not have anticipated the vitriolic response of some in the Orthodox rabbinate, I have to believe that he thought his decision through and, as did Ms. Hausman, made what he believed was both a halachic and compassionate response.

The issues of avodah zarah, maaras ayin, and issur hana'ah in relation to speaking in a church are not as black and white as some respondents would like to believe. What is clear is that an unmeasured response from the RCA has resulted in quite a lot of maaras ayin and a lot of embarrassment for the Orthodox community as a whole.

The RCA may have made a collective statement, but there are other Rabbanim that have agreed with and/or supported Rabbi Lookstein's decision. There are even historical precedents. (There is a nice article in the YU Commentator summarizing the controversy on 2/6/09.)

I think Rabbi Tzvi Hirsch Weinreb was correct to demure. When asked about the controversy, he refused to comment other than saying that he was certain that Rabbi Lookstein had justification for his actions. When the dust has settled and there is time to reflect we will be able to come to some better conclusions as a community.

I'd like to thank Ms. Hausman for sharing her story. She was able to relate her opinions and her own experience in a very personal way. All this without once casting aspersions on Rabbi Lookstein. Kol hakavod.

Jonathan posted on 02/13 at 03:59 PM.

It grieves me to see that a religion's rules (ANY religion) would alienate one from human relationships that one holds dear (save for those people who hold the same rigid interpretations). It speaks to ostracism and exclusion. That Rabbi who spoke of “the pain and suffering the church has caused the Jewish people," did not mention that there were also Christians who risked their lives to rescue Jews?

Just Wandering posted on 02/13 at 04:03 PM.

I grew up as a christian. Like so many sephardic jews that came to the new world my jewishness was hidden from me. The more I embraced my jewishness the more I detested my christian upbringing. Not only for the detriment it allows into the lives of its people but also the intolerance toward me that ensued because of my choice. Lo and behold the more secure I became in my jewish roots the more secure I became about my upbringing. Meaning that I was starting to shed the uncomfortableness of having been raised in christianity.

Like Mrs. Hausman, the conflict between following what I knew was my life's path and keeping my friends and family proved to be fatal in some relationships. However, the jewish soul is on a journey that is sometimes riddled with pain and darkness. Survival is our instinct for if we survive the world is safe from total destruction.

I was directed by my Rabbi to read and study the story of "Yosef" and "Moshe". These two divine souls were planted by H'Shem in the midst of Egyptian paganism.

Can we all agree that they rose to Eternal Jewish Stardom"

Question your heart when sharing or partaking of the other side. I pray "Shema" before entering any religious edifice lifting a shield to my heart and mind.

Mazel Tov to all with similar conflicts.

Manny posted on 02/13 at 05:34 PM.

BS"D

TODA RABA ALIZA!!!
HASHEM OZER LANU KEDEI LEHAMSHIJ BEDEREJ HASHEM... BEDEREJ EMET, BEDEREJ TORAT EMET!!!
GAM ANI GIORET VEANI MEBINA OTJA MEOD MEOD... ZEH HISTORIA KASHE ABAL AMITI!!!
BERAJOT MIARGENTINA

Margalit bat Abraham Abinu posted on 02/14 at 09:56 PM.

While one commentator has said that he would not have blamed you for making a one-time exception for your friend's wedding, let me tell you, there is never just a "one-time" exception. Later there would have been christenings and similar events that you would have been expected to attend.

Bruce James posted on 02/14 at 10:03 PM.

I am sorry to hear of such a good friend lost over this. We all wish for such friends.

I converted as well and my Rabbi never said anything about going back to church although shortly after you finish you don't want to.

With all the life cycle events we celebrate a wedding would seem to be the exception to the rule. It would have felt strange to hear the prayers after being away from them for a while. I really doubt it would have caused any doubt in your mind about converting.

The first time I walked into a church after a while for a funeral of a relative it did feel very strange.

I think that is one of the advantages of being a convert we can walk into places that others would never even think about or may not have had exposure to growing up.

I pray that someday you and your friend will be able to reconcile.

Dale Sands posted on 02/14 at 11:23 PM.

B''H

I would like to make one very important clarification about Mrs. Hausman's story. For those who have contended that the church and crosses are not places and symbols of avodah zorah (with which I disagree), remember that she is discussing a CATHOLIC church. Those are crucifixes, not "just" crosses. They actually have the carving of their idol nailed to the cross. If this is not avodah zorah, then I don't know what is.

Yasher koach to Mrs. Hausman. Perhaps her decision has helped her husband merit the ability to pursue his rabbinical ordination.

P.S. My husband, who is currently in the geirus process, fully agrees with me.

Shoshana Chana posted on 02/15 at 03:30 AM.

The more I learn about Judaism, the more, as others have mentioned, I completely detest my Xian upbringing (and at the same time, I am not in a position to convert right now...too much drama, too many uncertainties, no tools to help me...but that's another issue...). I have already had to deal with the "should I go to the wedding" issue, but it was much, much too easy for me to outright refuse since this was a wedding of coworkers and not my life-long friend. I'd never walk into a church again if I could help it. All the lies through all the centuries are just too much for me to tolerate, and I am painfully aware of them simply by walking into a Xian house of worship.

I have to agree that perhaps it was time to cut the ties. It seems rather shallow of your friend not to understand your faith and not speak to you for simply not going to a ceremony. Didn't she understand that you were happy for her marriage, even though you could not attend??

I can't believe your friend didn't at least invite you to the reception, then maybe show pictures later which then would not have been a problem for you.

Of course, I've had friends who I've known for decades simply do something horrible to me out of the blue. Most have moved away and no longer make an effort to contact me, nor I them. I guess that's how friendship goes.

On a final note, shame on all the commenters here that accuse this woman of doing something wrong, of a "chillul HaShem"!! That phrase is inappropriately slung around in these comments too much! Obviously her faith is important or she wouldn't have converted to begin with, and to give up a relationship like this cold turkey was a very hard thing to do! SHAME on all of you!

Rox posted on 02/15 at 09:59 AM.

Mrs. Hausman;
Your decision not to attend the Catholic wedding of a close friend, based on the Halachic decision of your Rav is important, but secondary.
You have displayed tremendous mesiras nefesh for Hashem, which I admire, and I think that we should all admire.
It is easier to give up one's life for Kidush Hashem, then to live one's entire life al Kidush Hashem.
I admire you tremendously.

Chaim Arnstein posted on 02/15 at 01:55 PM.

I see that many who are commenting have converted to Judaism. I'm wondering, is entering a church a special challenge to a convert, is that why there is so much resistance to this occurring? I have learned that we are to consider a convert as equivalent to one born Jewish, so I think this discussion is violating this precept! Now I will violate it as well. Many committed, even Orthodox Jews who were born Jewish also utilize "common sense" and intuition in making certain decisions. I would go as far as to say one's Judaism can not, in the end, survive without some exercise of autonomy and independent decision making. I hope that converts also learn to do this -- otherwise the risk is turning Judaism into a cult, Heaven forbid.

Robert L Smith posted on 02/15 at 02:53 PM.

I dont see how Judaism would require you to destroy a true, loving friendship like that - this is one of the most precious gifts that G-d can give us. Situations like this are capable of causing so much emotional hurt and damage, to rip apart a family or a friendship, I just can't see it.
Nobody is capable of following all the rules perfectly at all times - we're human. What if what G-d wants from us is our true and earnest sincerity, not just strict adherence?

DL posted on 02/15 at 11:56 PM.

It seems that the problem to me is that in our very tolerant society, we do not wish to make public statements regarding our beliefs. If you believe in Judaism then that very belief also means you believe Christianity to be a lie, or a fraud being perpetrated by the leaders of that religion. If that is the case how can we silently stand by in a church while a priest gets up and attributes G-dliness to a man?! Our being there is also our acceptance of what should absolutely never be accepted by us. The Torah tells us how one day all the nations of the world will come to recognize the "One" true G-d and we must lead by example. If your friend wanted you so badly at her wedding she could have easily chosen to get married elsewhere or just have you at the reception later on. However what probably really bothered her was the message that you sent which is "It is my belief that your religion is false" and that is what offended her so badly. As the daughter of a convert I can see both worlds and am unafraid to show the world what I believe.

Ronni posted on 02/16 at 01:14 AM.

I am also a convert, and I have a masters degree in theology from a Protestant seminary. The rabbi's statement that you can't go in a church is based on a flawed assumption, namely, that Christianity is idolatry. It is not! Christianity and Islam are monotheistic religions. Explanations of the Trinitarian formulation (which is, admittedly, a very difficult concept) go to great lengths to preserve the monotheism. I concluded that Christianity is a perfectly fine religion - for non-Jews; it just requires a leap of faith which I can't make. I see no problem with helping Christians to observe their own religious practices, and I think attending a Christian wedding would qualify. I doubt very much that those rabbis who pronounce against Christianity have ever really studied it from within (they have only studied Jewish sources, which in turn aren't authoritative about another religion), and I wish they would confine their statements to subjects they know something about.

Barbara posted on 02/16 at 12:23 PM.

I agree with Barbara. One need not reject others religions as being right for them. Clearly we accept the righteous of all religions. We can be right as Jews practicing Judiasm but that doesn't make a Christian wrong for practicing Christianity. (Or else we would be obligated to convert them all, which we don't try to do). As far as Moslems, even among some who claim Christianity is wrong, Islam is much closer to Judaism in theory -- and the "rules" about entering a mosque more liberal than a church (for those who take on the latter stringency). There is this strange streak that occasionally surfaces in Jewish texts. For example violation of Shabbat to save a life. Some would not apparently not extend that to Christians but mainstream Judaism clearly rejects that approach. Hopefully also, mainstream Judaism rejects some of the anti Christian polemic found above. However, it's unfortunately not a big step from refusing to enter a church to seeing all Christians as somehow less human than Jews.

R L Smith posted on 02/16 at 01:49 PM.

I found your story both interesting and sad. Your Rabbi's answer was the wrong one - for you (and yes, our most revered, well meaning and well respected rabbis can be um....wrong sometimes! Heresy!).

And your unwillingness to seek additional rabbinical consultation for whatever reasons, is unsettling. Neither halacha, history of the church, or the belief that christianity is a form of idolatry are acceptable justification for you in your particular circumstance, to not have attended the wedding of a friend of such magnitude in your life.

I understand Rabbi Lookstein's rationale and know other rabbis who would have told you the same, but there are other rabbis who would have found other rationale, so that you could have attended. How sad a story indeed...

The last thing Judaism needs are jews, either by birth or through conversion, who are unthinking, unable, or who are insecure to the point of not being able to ask questions, seek additional advice or to follow "common sense" (yes, after all is said and done, hashem was wise enough to have given us this too!) without believing their place in judaism or their conversion would some how be jeopardized by attending perhaps the most significant event in one of your dearest friends lives.

I myself have attended both weddings and a funeral at a catholic church, and nothing happened! (shock!) I was neither tempted to join the church, no one assumed that I as a jew, was there in any other capacity than to help celebrate this important life event of a friend, nor was I given any hint by hashem following the ceremony that he was displeased! I guess one would expect hashem to "understand" these things, right?

Respectfully submitted,

Barak F.

Barak F. posted on 02/16 at 07:21 PM.

I think some of the commenters are missing the point. It's not about worrying that if you enter a church you will be moved to practice the religion. It's not about getting struck down. Entering a church and not being moved doesn't make it right to enter the church (do you get hit by lightening every time you do something wrong? has every thief and murder been struck down as soon as they committed the wrong act?). For those who say the author was wrong in deciding not to enter a church, issues of idolatry and entering a church aside, in the discussion of doing what God wants - she can say that she is right and you are wrong, as definitively as you say she is wrong and you are right.

Additionally, maybe there is a separation, and we're meant to keep our innermost sphere mostly separate, because we are influenced by what and who we surround ourselves with.

lh posted on 02/16 at 09:08 PM.

Dear Aliza,

In all fairness, Cynthia should also understand your position of faith and your decision to pursue Orthodox Jewish conversion. I too, struggle with my old "past" being raised lutheran missouri synod, and being made aware Judaism, and Torah are the proper path to advance to Conversion, I hardly go near a 'church'. I often hope to be trained as a solid anti-missionary in the Bnei Noach path, till I arrive at Orthodox Jewish conversion. Most 98.9% of what jeezer is, is total bunk, and deception to the N'th degree. Anger, at past issues, anger at the fear of failing and also anger at the frustration of other deep serious issues may be internal tests to see if we got the Hutzpah to follow through. I accept my name.. Micha'el (Mee-Kah-El) as Hebrew / Ivrit. If only Moshe accepted his Hebrew identity and role when he met Jethro's daughter. He wouldn't have been referred to as an Egyptian, but a Levite! May Hashem grant us all insight to our own full understanding of our relationship with
Him and deeper understanding of Torah.

Micha'el L posted on 02/16 at 11:34 PM.

But the point is, LH, she was not separate from her friend...if she were to be influenced, she would have been in her intimate relationship with Cynthia. She only was demonstrating a form a outward separation -- the real connection was there in their bond as friends.

Hannah posted on 02/17 at 04:28 PM.

What I meant, Hannah, was that maybe she was not meant to maintain the same friendships as before her conversion. Many of the commenters lamented Ms. Hausman's loss of the friendship and "That friends should not be alienated for religious reasons". While the loss of any friendship is hard and sad, I'm not sure a Jew is meant to have a Christian as their best friend. Outward separations and proximity influence internal ones. To say that Ms. Hausman was not and would not be influenced by her friends and those she surrounds herself with (Jewish or Christian) is naive.

lh posted on 02/17 at 04:42 PM.

LH- what you are proposing sounds absurd; I'm sorry. Real friends are precious, irregardless of their religion, their race, or anything else. Of course a person's characteristics are very important in any relationship. But what are the reasons why a religious Jew cannot be friends with a religious Christian? The love shared between the two should include respect which should mean that no offense is taken when one cannot participate in another's lifecycle events. Do real friends get offended when their deaf friends cannot hear them sing? Just wow.

Rishona posted on 02/17 at 05:32 PM.

How sad I am to read your story... at the same time I partly understand your conviction...
For over 20 years I have maintained a cross-religious 'best friend' friendship. We have respected each others different ideas, become richer in understanding each other, and mature in respect. Last year I completed a Master's degree and what was heavy on my mind was the criss-cross muddle of conflicting ideas about religion, which lead to me observing "Friendship for Religious Sake OR Friendship for Friendship Sake" How often are we confronted by the notion of; when meeting a Born-Again Christian, "So are they Born-Again?", or at the same time when with fellow Jewish folk, "So are they Jewish?" Can't we enjoy each other for what we are? What I have learned is that a 25 year old true friendship is very very important, despite religious differences. I consider myself to be religious, I live my life unto HaShem and the Torah... Lets get over ourselves and when there is a real friendship.. lets embrace it!

Jonathan posted on 02/17 at 06:27 PM.

Re Jews and Christians, sometimes I've discovered that Christians have a better understanding of my families committment to Judiasm than do fellow Jews. My kids went to public school part of the time, and there were always Shabbat related conflicts coming up. I recall prior to the senior prom, we had a Saturday afternoon "reception" and few of the Jewish kids would come -- they were too busy going to the beauty parlor whereas some of my daughters Christian friends had more respect for our "peculiar" approach involving limiting what we did on Shabbat. There were times when we had to go to the school board to object to Saturday events -- we invariably got a more sympathetic reception from Christians on the board, than Jews who kept saying we were violating the separation of Church and State. So -- should we break off all friendships with secular Jews as well as Christians. I don't see that as our halachic obligation.

Lee posted on 02/18 at 10:20 AM.

Friends and Colleagues,

Reading through the comments above, it is clear that this lady tried to do the correct thing, and followed the dictates of her rabbi--as she should have done! A rabbinic authority ("posek") is supposed to interpret Jewish law for a specific lay person.

To criticize this author for following her rabbi's decision is to jeopardize, hook line and sinker, her belief system, and the belief system of Jewish law for millennia.

[That never stopped Jews before, as we are a very opinionated bunch--as the old joke goes, "With two Jews, you have three opinions."]

There are serious issues of Jewish law in entering a church, let alone participating in a worship service. Some halachic authorities hold that Catholism is NOT monotheism. If so, participating in a religious service involving polytheism might be one of the cardinal sins for which a Jew is obligated to let his or her life be taken rather than participate in.

In addition, it is my understanding that for nearly all converts to orthodox Judaism there are some stringencies that do not ordinarily apply to Jews from birth. I respect the decision of Jewish law rendered by the author's rabbi--and her decision to adhere to that decision and not seek "second opinions" until she found a different answer. The Torah has been interpreted as clearly requiring Jews to follow their rabbi: "Do not deviate...right or left" -- ie. even if the rabbi claims that what you think is right is really left, or vice versa.

As for the decision of a modern orthodox rabbi, apparently without consulting any spiritual mentor or authority in Jewish law, to participate in a Christian worship ceremony, I am not qualified to judge him. However, in general even the greatest of rabbinic authorities often consult with one another on matters concernig themselves or that are complex. As just one example: Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Auerbach of blessed memory insisted that Rabbi Moshe Feinstein of blessed memory be consulted on a matter of Jewish law.
Especially when the matter concerns a public decision such as participating in alien worship, having been invited by a president elect (whose chief of staff prays in a modern orthodox synagogue), it seems obvious that consultation with colleagues and a spiritual mentor or rabbinic authority would have been appropriate.

Sometimes, there have been considerations that go beyond the details of the case (the concept of aveira l'shma, for example) but in general, as I understand it, one is duty bound to ask a question of a rabbinic authority on such a matter--and to follow the answer given.

Once one has asked a question and received an answer from an authority of Jewish law, going "rabbi shopping" to find a rabbi who will give the person a different answer is highly problematic.

While this may not satisfy everyone, this is a matter of Jewish law. Jewish law is all-encompassing, allowing for individuality and autonomy within the broad framework of Jewish law, but not allowing the sort of freedom that enslaves. Even mundane laws such as those in this week's Bible reading are divine in origin--as is the requirement to obey one's rabbinic authority.

To compare such fidelity to one's belief system to a "cult" (as was suggested previously) is to show one's ignorance of how Jewish law works.

SLZ posted on 02/18 at 12:04 PM.

I wanted to add that I have friends, colleagues, and acquaintances who are not Jewish. I have never had an occasion wherein I was rebuked or lost a friend due to my declining attendance in a Christian or Hindu or other ceremony.

[Actually, I have found that non-orthodox Jews are the most uncomfortable when I have declined to participate in non-Jewish religious events--which is not surprising to anyone who has lived among Jews!]

When many years ago I arrived to pay my respects at a wake, upon the death of a young patient, the priest understood my predicament. [I had sent the parents to this priest for guidance on end-of-life matters, as they were Catholics.]

I expressed my condolences and left.

The family was not upset but rather seemed appreciative that I came to pay my respects.

In my view, a friend who would no longer be friends with someone over such an issue as the author's inability to participate in a hypothetical religious ceremony is not much of a friend.

I again commend the author for expressing her feelings.

SLZ posted on 02/18 at 12:34 PM.

Aliza, brave beautiful soul, a few points I want to mention, some to you personally and some to the others who commented.

Always remember that Cynthia gave up on your friendship, not the other way around. Who was showing intolerance?? With her, I am sorry to say, because of your closeness it was just a question of degree, of when, as opposed to the other ex-friends who gave up earlier.

Rationalizing that entering a church is not going to make you want to be a X'ian is just that - a rationalisation; something we are not allowed to do. Otherwise we could rationalize away so many other halachot that are not convenient for us at any particular time. Humans have that tendency....

I was taught that even going into a church hall (rather than the actual place of worship) is not allowed, even for just a thrift sale or Weight watcher's meeting! Similarly with a Reform synagogue, by the way!!

We must be tolerant and respectful of all peoples and their religions as it applies to them; not in relationship to ourselves. That is, if you employed a X'ian and he wanted to take 25 December off because it is his holiday, then you should respect that. But you going to a party for the same date's celebration is not o.k. So many bend over backwards (and stay bent...) to show tolerance, rather than standing up tall and straight and showing as much if not more respect for ourselves and our own way of life! The truth is that we often need to learn more before we can do that. Na'aseh - first do what's right, and then nishma - learn as thoroughly as you can to answer yourself and the world about us with pride. But if you can't find the answers or haven't yet learned them, go back to step 1. i.e. the na'aseh, without rationalising.

Finally Aliza, you have received a neshoma transplant on your conversion- it shows!!
Be strong and of good courage

Tamar Tessler posted on 02/19 at 06:59 PM.

p.s. it's those that compromise on religious issues (for the sake of 'peace' with others) that cause a chillul Hashem, not those that proudly stick to what's right! It confuses those of other religions when some of us do certain things and others proclaim we can't! Then they may get offended because they can't know which the truth really is - we who DO
know should stick to it. We will all be more respected if we respect ourselves. As for interpersonal relationships rather than inter-religious issues, halevai we should all be so compromising

Tamar posted on 02/19 at 08:19 PM.

Why, on an ORTHODOX website, is the author being chastised for putting HaShe-m FIRST in her life?

My uncle passed away two weeks after my halachic conversion, and then my grandmother (his mother-in-law) passed away three days later. My other beloved grandmother passed away 18 months later. I did not attend any of these funerals, but my family (on both sides) understood - I explained to them in advance that I could not, and B"H I was able to spend time with my grandmothers before they passed, and say my goodbyes in a meaningful way.

I also missed my little sister's wedding. I made it clear that I still loved her, and wish her and her husband only the greatest happiness together. I did it in such a way that conveyed much love, yet sadness that I could not join her. (It was in a Greek Orthodox Church - her in-laws' - how could I set foot in such a place?!)

Here's the thing: I love HaSh-m more than I love any person. To say 'Aliza shouldn't have to give up her friendship' ignores the fact that Aliza made it clear she wanted to remain friends - unfortunately Cynthia did not have the maturity to respect Aliza's strength of conviction.

I am greatly disappointed to see so many posts here that denigrate her strength of conviction in favor of 'the friendship'. Maybe HaSh-em had this happen to make way for more supportive and meaningful frum friendships. Those of us who are frum converts understand how special those are. We are often held to a higher standard that may not seem "Fair" to those who are uncomfortable reflecting on it, but I know I take my conversion seriously, and a person who can't respect that isn't worth having as a friend. People these days have more respect for politically correct 'lifestyle choices' than for those who stand up for their convictions!

Chana posted on 02/26 at 01:24 AM.

Oy! Such a contentious issue!!! So many postings. And I, also, am moved to add my opinion. What does G-d want in giving us the Torah? Ultimately, a repaired world, and a model for an ethical, spiritually fulfilled world. What would that look like???

G-d is ONE. This is the main message. We are made is G-d's image, therefore we are also ONE. That means all of us!

It is an ancient problem for Jews; how to remain a separate PEOPLE and yet harbor no racism, intolerance, or any other bigotry for other peoples. It's a Commandment B"H which almost forces us to treat others how we don't like to be treated ourselves unless practiced with EXTREME wisdom. It's a tight-rope we've been walking since Abraham left ALL HIS FAMILY and FRIENDS to "lech lecha" go for himself to a land he knew nothing of!! Such faith! Let's remember, Abraham was the ORIGINAL CONVERT.

Yet Moses let anyone who wanted to come from out of Egypt with him come, so long as they accepted Torah. Conversion was easy in those days, it would seem?

G-d also ordained that society would progress to the point it is now, where all faiths and non-faiths would exist and be able to enter a dialogue over the INTERNET with people from all over the world. If you have 2 Jews and 3 opinions, what do you have with thousands of Jews? A very long posting list!

At one point 40% of world Jewry was Karaite, meaning that they followed only Torah, and not Midrash, believing that HaShem was smart enough to say exactly what he wanted written. They are now an ostracized sect, determined by the Rabbis of the time to be cut off. How much faith does a Jew put in the words of a single Rabbi, when another Rabbi has a differing opinion? If we put any one Rabbi up on a pedestal, Lo! and Behold, we have Christianity!

Let's not give the convert such a difficult time. Ruth said "Where your people go, I will go, and where your people are buried, I will be buried," [paraphrase] and then she was an accepted Jew. Converts are to be considered HIGHER than the born Jew, through choosing the yoke of Torah by love and not by birthright. The conversion of one precious soul is as joyous as losing one is sorrowful.

What does all this have to do with a Jew not going into a church? Did Hashem believe that Torah was so flimsy as to crumble at the sight of wood, stone, or pictures? He only said don't WORSHIP idols. Each person has been created with a nashama, and an intelligence, and they can tell for themselves whether they are close to G-d, or drifting away.

To quote Micah -

"This is what the L-rd
Asks of you:
ONLY this,
To act justly,
To love TENDERLY,
And to walk humbly with YOUR G-D"

Shalom

Oneness posted on 02/27 at 03:09 AM.

I aim to the best Jew I can be. I have a question here....

If Cynthia's Catholicism was so dangerous and threatening to Judaism, then how come Aliza was best friends with her their whole lives, and yet STILL Aliza went through the arduous and wondrous conversion to Judaism?

HaShem can knock down a wall, part the sea, and He has promised that the Jewish people are eternal.

Oneness posted on 02/27 at 03:37 AM.

This article is not about whether we as Jews should be going to churches.

Aliza belittled an amazing friend, who gave her $800 to go visit her father, thus enabling Aliza to be mkayem kibud av. Aliza most likely won't make a friend like that again, Jewish or not. Aliza did this to Cynthia over a HYPOTHETICAL issue. The wedding in a church had not yet happened. It may never happen. Aliza may not be able to go for a good reason, or she could make up one when the time arose. To destroy a friendship over a hypothetical issue is utterly absurd.

Secondly, while Aliza is adamant about not going into a church, her husband, an aspiring rabbi, and his family seemingly have no problem doing so. They are even so careless as to get stuck there during a mass. I do not understand why Aliza herself is too religious to not go to an amazing friend's hypothetical wedding, but marries a guy who actually does walk into to an active church. This seems quite hypocritical.

Get your hashkafa in order, Aliza and apologize to your friend. When we stand before He, Who created us ALL on the day of judgment it will not matter whether we are Christians or Jews, whether we go to churches or synagogues, but how we behaved to our fellow men.

I am also an Orthodox convert and your behavior breaks my heart, and shames me that you can so carelessly be m'chalel shem shamayim for hypothetical and not valid reasons.

Adela Renna posted on 03/07 at 05:28 PM.

I don't think God wants us to love his laws more than people. If your child was starving to death and someone offered her a cheeseburger or a crabcake, you'd feed it to her without a second thought. We have to feed the hearts of our loved ones by sharing their joys and sorrows even if that means setting foot into a church. You certainly would not have been praying to the Christian God simply by attending your best friend's wedding. I hope that your friend will understand and your relationship will be healed.

AG posted on 07/16 at 01:16 AM.


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