The Rav’s Zt’l Philosophy on Religous Zionism

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The Rav’s Zt’l Philosophy on Religous Zionism – presented by Rabbi Aaron Rakeffet-Rothkoff, rosh yeshiva and professor of Rabbinic Literature at Yeshiva University’s Caroline and Joseph S. Gruss Institute in Jerusalem. This shiur was recorded on May 13, 1997 at The Gruss Institute and is part of the OU’s Torah Dimensions series focusing on Jerusalem.

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COMMENTS
  • http://twitter.com/FrumCounselor Raffi B.

    While your concerns are worth noting, I still think that on balance individual therapy is highly advisable for people struggling with couples issues. Good marriages come not only from working on your relationship but from working on yourself. The cautions mentioned here about poor therapists doing damage in in individual therapy could equally be said about poor therapists working with couples.

    Rabbi Raffi Bilek, LSW

  • Judy

    I completely disagree with this article. As someone who was in a destructive marriage for 23 years, I can tell you that it is horrible for everyone, especially the children, to be in a marriage where blaming, shaming, yelling and disrespect is a part of life. People say they can and will change but when push comes to shove it is unlikely and everyone suffers. It is much better to start out by knowing yourself – and then finding someone you can respect and love – even when you disagree with them sometimes. Someone that helps you grow and whom you can grow with. Sometimes an individual therapist is just what the doctor ordered to help you leave when you should have left years ago.

  • Shoshi

    Rabbi Slatkin, I believe you made many excellent points. However, I think they are primarily valid when you are dealing with two healthy individuals who are in an unhealthy relationship dynamic. If one (or both) spouses are are dealing with mental illness, it is often primary to manage the mental illness. This can be done individually or (at times) as part of couples’ work. Mental illness can have a profound effect on the couples’ relationship.
    It is unethical for a therapist to advise a couple to divorce without treating the couple. Even when treating the couple, this is not the therapist’s decision to make. It can sometimes be the therapist’s role to help clarify the client’s decision making. Ultimately, as you had noted, the clients should be the ones making the decisions because they are the ones living with the decisions. They are adults and have capacity to make these choices for themselves.

  • Pnina

    It is true that there are therapists that forget the essence of their task and begin to advice you what to do. They actually decide instead of you how to act in a relationship. When you feel like during the sessions, it is time to consider changing a therapist.

    I am quite disappointed by the Rabbi’s underestimation of verbal abuse. It is widely known that it is precisely this type of abuse that is so much dangerous as it is so difficult to point at. As the Rabbi said – the individual feels that he/she gets at the therapist what he/she lacks in a marriage – respect. Respect is the prerequisite of any relationship and where there is no respect, there is no relationship.

    I believe there should be made also a clear distinction between two situations: 1. One of the partners refuses to use the possibility of a marriage counselling altogether. He/she seems to be disinterested in working things out. 2. The couple went through a bad marriage counselling and they decided to continue with an individual counselling. Then, one of the partners decides to give up the counselling and solve the problems alone.

    In the first case, it is clear that a this person has a full right to refuse to go to a marriage counselor. But it is very hard for the other party to see it as a full cooperation and a fulfillment of the promise, that ‘we will work things together’. It many times only means, that ‘we will work out things together – my way’.

    In the second case, it is up to each one of them to decide where they want to look for advice. But they both seem to be cooperating with each other.

    All in all, a therapist can never destroy a relationship, unless the client wants so. It is either that this individual lived in an abusive relationship and it is only good for him/her that a therapy helped him/her to cope with it in dignity, or, the individual lived in a non-abusive relationship, but decided he/she want to walk out anyway, and does so. Then, the therapy might be just a self-excuse.

  • http://www.facebook.com/rach.neuman Rachel NeuFryman

    Honestly, I am really disappointed that the OU would publish this article, especially with such a ridiculous title. This article only reinforces the stigma that therapy is harmful. This article confuses going to an incompetent therapist such as the one described in this article, with receiving competent care which can be marriage saving. There are times when marriage counseling is not an option if one or both partners need to work on understanding their own individual mental health or psycho-social issues. Even in this individual treatment, there is room for collateral sessions to prevent alienating the other spouse.
    Rabbi Slatkin, with all due respect, you neglect to take into consideration that the vast majority of individuals in therapy do benefit and can lead happier and healthier lives and marriages as a result of their treatment. When looking for a therapist, individuals have a responsibility to be savvy consumers. Consult with a rav, physician or friends. Taking referrals from people you respect will minimize the risk of therapist malpractice.

  • beentheretoo18

    To the moderator: Has my comment been rejected?

    • gmagder

      Would you be able to reduce this size of this entry?

  • Zalman Lachman, LCSW-R

    Sensationalist title guaranteed to titillate. Utter nonsense sells magazines and newspapers but this title belongs on a supermarket tabloid, not in a supposedly responsible publication.

    As a Licensed Clinical Social Worker I have worked with couples for 13 years. I have never recommended divorce nor separation. Yes, clients have chosen to divorce, but that is their considered decision and never prompted. Interestingly, many of the couples consider divorce to save their children from the parenting of their spouse. My experience is that it is nearly always worse for the children and the choice to divorce has more to say about the internal emotional makeup of the uncomfortable spouse than the child’s need to be saved. Guess what: sometimes it is the emotional makeup of the therapist who cannot stand the pain of the relationship, and these are the ones who encourage divorce. I encourage everyone to run the other way fast. Clients come to us at their most vulnerable, but even so, adults must be responsible and discerning consumers. To that extent psychotherapy is a service like any other.

    On occasion I see members of a couple separately to help them work on the individual issues they bring to the relationship. Frankly, I am less concerned about the objective “craziness” of my client and more concerned with the relationship-as-patient. We all work together on that patient. Yes, sometimes someone stops being able to work on things constructively. That doesn’t necessitate divorce. I urge them to check back in 3 months and sometimes we can pick up the work from there.

    The Gottman Method pioneered by Drs. John and Julie Gottman was the result of 20 years of solid research and works well for most couples. I recommend that anyone who wants to improve their marriage pick up a copy of The Relationship Cure. This is not the venue for greater detail, but any marriage can be improved if people are willing and able to use the techniques outlined there.

    • Michoel

      so what do you disagree with? You are saying the same thing he is

  • dov ribner

    This article is so true. My therapist urged me to get rid of my wife. I did not listen and saved my marriage and family by working to make things better.

  • Rabbi Shlomo Slatkin MS, LCPC

    Although a more lengthy response will be forthcoming. I feel it is important to reply to some of the misinterpretations of this article including that I condone emotional abuse. I have an entire chapter in my book devoted to emotional and verbal abuse. Of course it should not be condoned. What I said is that an individual therapist should not encourage divorce in case of verbal abuse unless he/she actually meets with the other partner.

    As I wrote, “Unless there is physical abuse or potential threat to one’s life, it is
    irresponsible for a therapist to encourage divorce without hearing both
    sides of the story.”

    When I wrote that yelling, blaming,etc was “normal” I wrote it in quotations to prove a point. Of course it is unacceptable, but it is changeable behavior and the marriage can be repaired.

    Please read what was written and not draw conclusions.I am not against individual therapy. As I wrote in the beginning of the article, “While individual therapy is helpful for individuals, it is often counterproductive for couples going through marital problems.”

    I still feel this way. Individual therapy is often counterproductive for couples going through marital problems for the reasons discussed in this article. If both partners are willing, the goal should be to work it out in the context of couples work. Perhaps my article seemed a little “over the top.” I write this out of pain and concern for the many couples who experienced exactly what I wrote about in this article. This is further validated by the numerous private calls and emails I have received by both fellow therapists as well as laymen who have concurred with what I wrote. Yes, there are competent and wonderful individual therapists who can help someone with their marriage in the case where their spouse is unwilling. However, it is important to be aware of the issues I raised.