{"id":46623,"date":"2015-09-08T11:51:56","date_gmt":"2015-09-08T16:51:56","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.ou.org\/life\/?p=46623"},"modified":"2015-09-08T12:21:40","modified_gmt":"2015-09-08T17:21:40","slug":"why-cant-we-argue-civilly","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.ou.org\/life\/torah\/why-cant-we-argue-civilly\/","title":{"rendered":"Why Can&#8217;t We Argue Civilly?"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.ou.org\/life\/files\/1096px-Carl_Schleicher_Eine_Streitfrage_aus_dem_Talmud.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-post-46623 wp-image-46627 alignleft\" src=\"https:\/\/www.ou.org\/life\/files\/1096px-Carl_Schleicher_Eine_Streitfrage_aus_dem_Talmud-300x246.jpg\" alt=\"1096px-Carl_Schleicher_Eine_Streitfrage_aus_dem_Talmud\" width=\"300\" height=\"246\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.ou.org\/life\/files\/1096px-Carl_Schleicher_Eine_Streitfrage_aus_dem_Talmud-300x246.jpg 300w, https:\/\/www.ou.org\/life\/files\/1096px-Carl_Schleicher_Eine_Streitfrage_aus_dem_Talmud.jpg 980w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/a>Orthodox Judaism emphasizes Talmud study. Some people love the analysis and debate format of the Talmud but other people prefer studying the final decisions of the Talmud. They don\u2019t enjoy the argument and discussion in the Talmud, and they most certainly do not love the layer upon layer of subsequent debate about the arguments in the Talmud. They simply want the sausage without seeing how it is made.<\/p>\n<p>I happen to enjoy the Talmud\u2019s version of the Socratic method. I especially love the intensity of later commentaries arguing vociferously over small details with broad ramifications.<\/p>\n<p>From a historical perspective, Talmudic argument until the modern era was very different than modern argument. It is not uncommon to read an argument between people from different times and different places who did not know each other and may have never even heard of each other. They argued in slow motion. Their weapons were ink, quill, paper, and snail-mail. This is especially true of the Medieval commentators.<span id=\"more-9388\"><\/span><\/p>\n<p>Modernity has gifted us with lightning quick communication.\u00a0We can argue faster and more often than ever before. Given the opportunity, our People will never pass up an opportunity to argue. The Internet has also democratized communication a bit. People who had no voice in the old world, can have a voice in the new world. The thing about democratized communication is that without the social filters that prevented average people from being heard, it can be challenging for us to\u00a0distinguish between distinguished voices and voices that perhaps should be extinguished. Internet debate also encourages rhetoric and exaggeration, because levelheaded reasoned debate doesn\u2019t play well online.<\/p>\n<p>This is all relevant every day, but this week it\u2019s more relevant than usual. A new Beit Din was established to handle difficult Agunah cases. The Beit Din relies on minority or discarded halachic opinions to unchain women who are still technically married to recalcitrant husbands. This is a certainly a worthy cause and I fully support any attempt to try and build support for the Beit Din.<\/p>\n<p>The problem is that any attempt to resolve the Agunah issue must be consensus based. If even one prominent rabbi disagrees with the tactics of the Beit Din, then the entire enterprise is useless because no one will want to marry the unchained woman for fear that a child will be considered a mamzer or their marriage would be considered \u201cin sin.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>This week, Rabbi Hershel Schachter, the most prominent and learned rabbi in the Modern Orthodox world and four major co-signers, <a href=\"http:\/\/www.thejewishweek.com\/news\/new-york\/leading-rabbi-deals-big-blow-agunah-court\">wrote a letter to\u00a0his colleagues and students urging them not to rely on this new Beit Din<\/a>. The letter did not make a legal argument. Instead the letter appealed to the lack of rabbinic experience and expertise on these matters, coupled with the gravity of potential sin in these cases.<\/p>\n<p>Much of the vocal response to this letter has been embarrassing.<\/p>\n<p>People are calling Rabbi Schachter a bully, power-hungry, and arrogant. His letter has been called an \u201cunsubstantiated attack\u201d and \u201cscare tactics\u201d as well.<\/p>\n<p>Here\u2019s the thing; none of that is true.<\/p>\n<p>Clearly, reasonable rabbis can disagree on the effectiveness of the new Beit Din\u2019s tactics. Rabbi Schachter has every right to advise the people who rely on him for religious instruction and guidance, he may even have an obligation to do so. His letter was to his constituents.<\/p>\n<p>It is completely inappropriate for anyone to attack Rabbi Schachter\u2019s character or motivation for his opinions. It is especially inappropriate for people with no knowledge of the issues, arguments, and precedent to attack Rabbi Schachter\u2019s character or motivation for his opinions. The most one could say about Rabbi Schachter right now is that he is a conservative halachic jurist.<\/p>\n<p>To one who knows Rabbi Schachter\u2019s character and heart, the rhetoric is even more ridiculous. This is a man who cries nearly every time he speaks in public about issues like Agunah. This is a man who is reduced to tears every time he spends hours on the phone working on an agunah case. This is a man who pulls himself out of the study hall to protest recalcitrant husbands. This is a man who is considered by some Haredi Beit Dins to be too permissive with regard to Agunah and has been \u201cexcommunicated\u201d and slandered as a result.<\/p>\n<p>The personal attacks need to stop. The personal attacks that plainly contradict reality are simply embarrassing.<\/p>\n<p>I don\u2019t know enough to argue the issues of the new Beit Din on the merits of precedent and policy. But I know enough to know I don\u2019t know enough. I also know enough to know that the only valid criticism in this discussion is analysis of legal principles. (It feels awfully similar to the lack of honest debate about the Kosher Switch. See: <a href=\"http:\/\/finkorswim.com\/2015\/04\/24\/both-sides-on-the-kosher-switch-debate-and-some-commentary\/\" target=\"_blank\">Both Sides on the Kosher Switch Debate<\/a>)<\/p>\n<p>When it comes to philosophy, religious meaning, interpretation of stories, and social issues I think experience and expertise are important but not determinative. But when it comes to Jewish law, our community would be best advised to argue, debate, and discuss the issues among people at any level, but in the end, to defer to the experts. If you\u2019re not going to defer to the experts, at least respect the experts. Remember that there is a proper way to argue. There is a historically consistent way to argue vociferously. Internet shouting matches, click-baity headlines, and hyperventilating are not the way we are supposed to debate important issues. Rabbi Schachter deserves better. We all deserve better.<\/p>\n<p>This article was originally published on Rabbi Fink\u2019s blog, <a href=\"http:\/\/finkorswim.com\/\">Fink or Swim<\/a>. You can follow Rabbi Fink on Facebook <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/eliyahu.fink\">here<\/a>.<\/p>\n<div class=\"email-signup-box article-bottom-subscribe\"><\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Orthodox Judaism emphasizes Talmud study. Some people love the analysis and debate format of the Talmud but other people prefer studying the final decisions of the Talmud. They don\u2019t enjoy the argument and discussion in the Talmud, and they most certainly do not love the layer upon layer of subsequent debate about the arguments in<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":784,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_cloudinary_featured_overwrite":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[97,83],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-46623","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-community","category-torah"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v24.9 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Why Can&#039;t We Argue Civilly? - OU Life<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.ou.org\/life\/torah\/why-cant-we-argue-civilly\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Why Can&#039;t We Argue Civilly? - OU Life\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Orthodox Judaism emphasizes Talmud study. Some people love the analysis and debate format of the Talmud but other people prefer studying the final decisions of the Talmud. They don\u2019t enjoy the argument and discussion in the Talmud, and they most certainly do not love the layer upon layer of subsequent debate about the arguments in\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.ou.org\/life\/torah\/why-cant-we-argue-civilly\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"OU Life\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2015-09-08T16:51:56+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2015-09-08T17:21:40+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/www.ou.org\/life\/files\/1096px-Carl_Schleicher_Eine_Streitfrage_aus_dem_Talmud-300x246.jpg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Rabbi Eliyahu Fink\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Rabbi Eliyahu Fink\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"5 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.ou.org\/life\/torah\/why-cant-we-argue-civilly\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.ou.org\/life\/torah\/why-cant-we-argue-civilly\/\",\"name\":\"Why Can't We Argue Civilly? - OU Life\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.ou.org\/life\/#website\"},\"primaryImageOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.ou.org\/life\/torah\/why-cant-we-argue-civilly\/#primaryimage\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.ou.org\/life\/torah\/why-cant-we-argue-civilly\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\/\/www.ou.org\/life\/files\/1096px-Carl_Schleicher_Eine_Streitfrage_aus_dem_Talmud-300x246.jpg\",\"datePublished\":\"2015-09-08T16:51:56+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2015-09-08T17:21:40+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.ou.org\/life\/#\/schema\/person\/e4db9da22d286927138ced39772f4534\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.ou.org\/life\/torah\/why-cant-we-argue-civilly\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.ou.org\/life\/torah\/why-cant-we-argue-civilly\/#primaryimage\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.ou.org\/life\/files\/1096px-Carl_Schleicher_Eine_Streitfrage_aus_dem_Talmud.jpg\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/www.ou.org\/life\/files\/1096px-Carl_Schleicher_Eine_Streitfrage_aus_dem_Talmud.jpg\",\"width\":980,\"height\":805},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.ou.org\/life\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.ou.org\/life\/\",\"name\":\"OU Life\",\"description\":\"Everyday Jewish Living\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.ou.org\/life\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":{\"@type\":\"PropertyValueSpecification\",\"valueRequired\":true,\"valueName\":\"search_term_string\"}}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.ou.org\/life\/#\/schema\/person\/e4db9da22d286927138ced39772f4534\",\"name\":\"Rabbi Eliyahu Fink\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.ou.org\/life\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"http:\/\/www.ou.org\/life\/files\/eliyahu@fink.me_avatar.png\",\"contentUrl\":\"http:\/\/www.ou.org\/life\/files\/eliyahu@fink.me_avatar.png\",\"caption\":\"Rabbi Eliyahu Fink\"},\"description\":\"Rabbi Eliyahu Fink comes from a long line of Rabbis and Jewish Community activists. 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