| Father Pedamonti |
[answering telephone, trans.] Santa
Zia Parish Church. Good afternoon. |
| Caller |
Yes, good afternoon. Can I speak to Mr. - ? |
| Father Pedamonti |
Yes, with the priest? Certainly. I am
the priest. |
| Caller |
Pardon? |
| Father Pedamonti |
Who do you want to talk to? |
| Caller |
With Father Pedamonti. |
| Father Pedamonti |
Yes, that’s me. |
| Caller |
Good morning, Father. I am Zaki. Two weeks ago, we
were with Marko, the gentleman who wants to do the baptism. |
| Father Pedamonti |
Yes. |
| Caller |
Do you remember? |
| Father Pedamonti |
Yes, yes, I remember. |
| Caller |
Yes, I am the friend of his from Mexico. Maybe you
speak English? |
| Father Pedamonti |
No, I don’t. |
| Caller |
I am his friend from Mexico who - |
| Father Pedamonti |
Is he in Mexico now? |
| Caller |
No. no. He works in import-export in Mexico but from
Rome. Since he’s arriving now to work in Genova, he said to you that he wants - |
| Father Pedamonti |
Yes, yes. Tell me when he arrives.
With pleasure. |
| Caller |
Yes, yes. That’s it. So the problem is now that
he wants to make the conver-. How do you call it? |
| Father Pedamonti |
The Sacrament. |
| Caller |
The whole process. But he’s in a little
difficulty at the moment. What’s happening? I’m phoning. (Sound of dialing on
the phone) Yesterday, for the Jews, he knows, it was, they have the day when they
don’t eat. It’s called the Day of Atonement, isn’t it? |
| Father Pedamonti |
Yes, of the Sabbath. |
| Caller |
Yes, when they don’t eat. You know. |
| Father Pedamonti |
Yes. Those are various rules because
there is the general rule of the Sabbath, which is the festival of the Jew, but besides,
there are Jewish groups. |
| Caller |
No, their, their, the Jews have, well, a national day
on which they don’t eat anything. |
| Father Pedamonti |
Yes, those are the national holidays. |
| Caller |
Yes. Yes, he, he, and he was with the family and well
what happened, he who was also the father, and the father is Jewish, but the mother not,
and he starts, the father starts to say, No, I don’t want you to change and become a
Christian, and so on. And he says, just as he was very irritated with his father, he was
very emotional - |
| Father Pedamonti |
But he is an adult. Therefore - |
| Caller |
Yes, yes. Right. No. But he wanted to go on that path
which he’d already started out on. Then I saw that that man was under a tiny bit of
pressure since he had to be with the family and so on. There was a lot of pressure. And
then yesterday evening, he said to me, “How can we do it when there’s the
pressure of my father,” and so on. |
| Father Pedamonti |
Tell him he must feel independent with
regard to making that decision because there is nothing wrong. If the father was opposed
to some serious, criminal idea, it would be possible to justify the father. But since
these are religious choices, choices concerning one’s duty in life, the father cannot
interfere anymore because he is an adult. |
| Caller |
Yes, he is 34. |
| Father Pedamonti |
Therefore, he should tell him, I am an
adult. I make my choice just as you made yours and you carry the consequences. I make my
choice and carry the consequences. If need be, he should sever himself intellectually from
the father. |
| Caller |
Yes. |
| Father Pedamonti |
Social, family ties is one thing.
Intellectual, spiritual ties is something else. Therefore a man has his own outlook, his
own spirituality. He is in charge of his own intellectuality. Beyond this, there must be
family ties. He must honor his father, and so on, co-operate. But nothing more than this.
That’s enough. |
| Caller |
Yes, but you, Father, for example, you don’t have
to obtain the permission of Marko’s father, do you? |
| Father Pedamonti |
No. no, certainly not. |
| Caller |
He can go his own way with you? |
| Father Pedamonti |
Above the age of 12. |
| Caller |
In your church, yes? |
| Father Pedamonti |
Yes. After 12, the lad does not need
to get anybody’s
permission anymore |
| Caller |
Yes. |
| Father Pedamonti |
After 12. |
| Caller |
But he can do the whole thing with you in the Santa
Zia Church? |
| Father Pedamonti |
Yes, yes, yes. |
| Caller |
When he is in Genova? |
| Father Pedamonti |
When he is here, I told him, when he
is here, he’ll come along and we’ll talk and we’ll make progress bit by
bit. |
| Caller |
I understand. No, because he said that if it has to
take a long time, because he needs someone to urge him along, because he still has not
made a hundred percent decision. But that’s normal, isn’t it? |
| Father Pedamonti |
Very normal. |
| Caller |
So I told him, All right, the father of the church
said there is someone who does this. |
| Father Pedamonti |
There sure is. |
| Caller |
It’s not a serious thing, not a -? |
| Father Pedamonti |
Absolutely. |
| Caller |
Yes, but he’s also a little afraid that it takes
time because you said that you did, I don’t know the, you did the baptism of Mr. - |
| Father Pedamonti |
Of the Jew? Yes, of, what’s his
name? |
| Caller |
Of the doctor? |
| Father Pedamonti |
Yes, the doctor. The one who has the
chemist’s. |
| Caller |
Dr. Dulberg. |
| Father Pedamonti |
Dulberg, yes. |
| Caller |
Dr. Dulberg did the baptism? |
| Father Pedamonti |
The baptism? Yes. |
| Caller |
He was baptized. You also told him, and that’s
what he’s afraid of, that he did the thing 5 years, that it takes 5 years to convert. |
| Father Pedamonti |
So you know. Then Dulberg was
observant. That’s why, then, little by little, he had to change his habits a little. |
| Caller |
What was he? I didn’t understand. |
| Father Pedamonti |
Religious, wasn’t he? |
| Caller |
Dulberg was a Jew before, wasn’t he? |
| Father Pedamonti |
Yes, but he was also observant,
wasn’t he? |
| Caller |
What’s the meaning of “observant”? |
| Father Pedamonti |
From a practical point of view, it
means a Jew who observes all the festivals, the Jewish customs, doesn’t it? |
| Caller |
Yes, yes. |
| Father Pedamonti |
That’s why he had to change,
shall we say, his habits. I don’t know if the young man observes the rituals of the
festivals, the holidays, customs. |
| Caller |
But he is afraid it will go on. Did you conduct for
Dr. Dulberg, how do you call it? |
| Father Pedamonti |
The conversion? Yes. |
| Caller |
So that he has become, now he’s a Christian, is
he? |
| Father Pedamonti |
Sure. He is a Christian. |
| Caller |
Yes, but it takes time. How long did it take with Dr.
Dulberg? That's what he’s afraid of, that you told him 5 years. I told him, No. |
| Father Pedamonti |
5 years on a personal level, shall we
say, as an inner development. |
| Caller |
When does he start, like the baptism and so on? |
| Father Pedamonti |
He can do that in a few months. |
| Caller |
No. For example, because he wants to speak to someone
who was like him before. |
| Father Pedamonti |
Yes but, in the end, everyone has his
own way. One person might be slower, another might be faster, then there’s the person
who does it with more - |
| Caller |
But Dulberg, when he did start? 5 years ago? |
| Father Pedamonti |
No, 5 years ago, he made a start.
Probably. No, I’m not sure it was 5 years ago. He probably started the inner process
5 years ago. |
| Caller |
And when did he finish, Dulberg? |
| Father Pedamonti |
Dulberg went through baptism a little
more than a year ago. |
| Caller |
A year that he is completely finished. But the thing
took then, almost 4 years, he’s been doing - |
| Father Pedamonti |
Not so. No studies, no dialogue with
us. He wasn’t in dialogue with us even a year. |
| Caller |
But you are the man who counseled him? |
| Father Pedamonti |
But Dulberg talked about a gradual
drawing near. You know, first a person sees it a little from the outside. Then he gets
interested and so on and so forth, no? |
| Caller |
Yes. |
| Father Pedamonti |
Then he starts to talk a little with
the priest with the object of preparation for a deep understanding. |
| Caller |
But, for example, if he, if Marco, could speak to
someone who’s already gone through the whole process, someone who’s not in the
middle of the process. Dulberg is in the middle of the process. And that’s not good.
Maybe there’s someone else? |
| Father Pedamonti |
No, no. Dulberg is a Christian now,
performs all the sacraments, is completely Christian. |
| Caller |
What? Dulberg is really a Christian? |
| Father Pedamonti |
Yes, yes, yes. |
| Caller |
He can really explain everything? |
| Father Pedamonti |
He already participates in communion,
goes to mass, does everything. |
| Caller |
But if he has converted to Christianity, he must also
have an authorization which [he received] after he finishes. You can give Mr. Marco an
authorization that he did everything correctly? |
| Father Pedamonti |
Of course, of course. |
| Caller |
Is there an authorization which the Church gives? |
| Father Pedamonti |
Of course. But there is no need for a
special authorization. It is enough that he has accepted the doctrines of faith, destiny. |
| Caller |
If he wants to get married, for example. |
| Father Pedamonti |
After baptism, he can marry when he
wants. There’s no problem. No one will ask him any questions, you understand? |
| Caller |
I understand. That’s fine. |
| Father Pedamonti |
Yes, there’s great freedom,
let’s say, when you get to faith. After this, there’s great freedom. We
don’t have rigid rules. |
Caller
|
There’s something else. A problem that I am
explaining to you. But don’t tell him that I said this when, because in a week’s
time, ten days’ time, he is arriving in Genova, for a short time. We are also coming.
But I wouldn’t like that you, Father, heard it from me. |
| Father Pedamonti |
No, no. |
| Caller |
For example, now he has divorced his wife, well he
left her, he is separated. He is not divorced, he is separated and there is the
two-and-a-half-year old child. So in the future when he converts to Christianity, does the
child automatically become a Christian also? |
| Father Pedamonti |
No, no, no. |
| Caller |
How do you explain that? |
| Father Pedamonti |
It’s impossible to force anyone
to be a Christian. |
| Caller |
What happens if -? |
| Father Pedamonti |
The father, the father can choose for
his child up to the age of 12. But he is not obligated to choose since he can say, I will
allow my child to choose, or say, I made the choice and I want my son to have my faith. So
until 12, the father can choose. After the child is 12, he cannot choose for him anymore
since we hold that it’s right that the child chooses. You understand? |
| Caller |
Then he must wait. No, it’s not just curiosity to
know because now, he is a little, a little - |
| Father Pedamonti |
It’s the same thing for marriage.
If he wants to marry a Christian, to have a Christian marriage service, he can have a
Christian marriage service. Just that the Italian Church respects the laws of the country.
So if the State has still not declared the divorce, the Church says, First get a divorce.
You understand? To respect all the State - |
| Caller |
Fine. Listen, Father. |
| Father Pedamonti |
The Church doesn’t have to, but - |
| Caller |
Eh?! It doesn't have to? |
| Father Pedamonti |
No, it doesn’t have to. The
Church could hold a Christian marriage without a civil marriage, but to respect -
you see? - in order to, let’s say, live together for mutual respect. |
| Caller |
I understand, fine. |
| Father Pedamonti |
The State minds certain Church affairs
and the Church minds some of the rules of the State. |
| Caller |
I understand. Fine. I think that he, bit by bit
he’ll take it up. But you say that this way, if he’s close to you, if
there’s enough time, well not everyday, then you think he can complete the process.
Is there an exam or something afterwards? |
| Father Pedamonti |
No. It’s not an exam. |
| Caller |
So who says everything’s fine, that O.K? Him? |
| Father Pedamonti |
Me, me, me. Him. Together we say,
together we give the O.K. No, I understand that, it seems to me, it looks to me, that is,
I am sure he has a clear understanding of Christian issues, and he is saying, It suits me
fine, and he will get baptized. He is not a child whom the professor has to decide for
him. You understand? |
| Caller |
Yes, yes, sure. But how long does it take? |
| Father Pedamonti |
That depends on how gradually he gets
close, understands, appreciates, how much deep thinking he does. |
| Caller |
But not 5 years like Mr. Dulberg. |
| Father Pedamonti |
No. It took him 5 years in my opinion,
not in the sense that he developed an interest, then bit by bit drew near. In his case, I
don't know how much he is interested in Christianity and how long he has been getting
nearer since he already told me that he is reading the Bible here and there. So it could
possibly be two or three years he has had this thought, no? |
| Caller |
Yes, yes. |
| Father Pedamonti |
I don’t know. He hasn’t yet
told me. |
| Caller |
Well, whatever, he does everything in your church and
under your responsibility, and so on? |
| Father Pedamonti |
Yes, yes. He has to make a choice. |
| Caller |
Whatever, you are the one who listens afterwards, when
you start to talk to him, to his problem and so on. Don’t tell him about the matter
of the child which I told you about. |
| Father Pedamonti |
No, no, I won’t say anything. |
| Caller |
He thinks that - |
| Father Pedamonti |
Yes, little by little he will tell us.
As soon as he has developed confidence and talks, he will tell us. |
| Caller |
Fine. So let’s fix a day before he arrives.
I’ll phone to make an appointment. |
| Father Pedamonti |
Thanks. |
| Caller |
Thanks. |
| Father Pedamonti |
You’re welcome. |
| Hear an audio tape of the actual conversation |
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